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welcome to somewhere in the skies I am

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your host Ryan Sprague and today on the

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show we have a guest that I have wanted

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to have on the show for a very long time

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you know him probably from his breakout

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1989 book communion which that book

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cover changed a lot of our lives so

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today we're going to be talking to

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Whitley streber all about his

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experiences uh his experiences

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afterwards after the events of the book

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communion and uh where he is now in his

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life with these experiences and where he

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thinks we're going in the future when it

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comes to both UFOs and Humanity so today

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our guest Whitley streber

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foreign

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[Music]

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Whitley Streeper welcome for the very

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first time to somewhere in the skies

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well thank you for having me I'm

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delighted so for me Whitley uh you know

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communion was a big part of my

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initiation into this field uh

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particularly the abduction phenomenon

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and uh it changed a lot of perceptions

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of what this phenomenon is

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um it was a cultural moment for many out

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there especially the cover of the book

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which I know a lot of people have

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dissected as well uh but I love if you

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could maybe run us through that initial

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experience in 1985. I know it goes a lot

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further back into your life as well but

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that Pinnacle moment that communion is

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uh is sort of based on could you maybe

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run us through that that initial event

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in 1985 in Upstate New York

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sure

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I was it was December the 26 1985 and

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what the event was I think was a

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trigger

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to cause me to

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realize that this had been in my life

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for a long time but it didn't quite work

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that way at first

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the reason being that while it had been

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in my life probably as a child

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I was not at all involved in this at the

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time

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it happened I had no idea

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about UFOs I mean I knew about them

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everybody does

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but I didn't uh

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you know and think about them I didn't

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care about them

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I didn't certainly care about aliens and

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uh I would never have fought didn't I

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would wake up in a room full of never in

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fact I would have laughed at anybody who

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made such a claim

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then suddenly I did and what I I'll tell

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you what I remembered pretty much

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over the next few days before it became

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more clear and I

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in the next morning

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when I woke up I was really Disturbed

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and very upset

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and I hadn't had a good night's sleep I

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knew that

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I thought an owl maybe had gotten into

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the house because I could remember these

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big black eyes

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and Annie my wife pointed out it

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couldn't have happened because there was

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no way an owl could have gotten into the

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house which is quite true

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so I'm I became more and more concerned

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then I began to feel rectal pain and a

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pain in the in my uh

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Temple there was a red mark appeared

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there

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and I began to have some very strange

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and disturbing flashes of memory really

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as the trauma I released me from the

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from traumatic amnesia

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I began to recall these big eyes and a

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lot of movement around me

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and by the end of the week

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I had a memory in my head that was so

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bizarre that I really couldn't

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understand

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what it could be because I remember

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being take being I remembered waking up

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on a bed

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or a little cot in this round room

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full of

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bizarre creatures some of which were

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dark blue and rushing around

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and others which one other especially

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which was the one that ended up on the

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cover of communion

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uh who was older than the cover looks

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she must have been delighted by that in

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any case

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um uh she I would get to know her very

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well over the next few years and uh so

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would many friends and members of my

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family because it reached a point when

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they were visitors were coming back all

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the time at the cabin and

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you know we we had a lot of people up

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there who would it would interact with

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them and they were there and it was a

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tremendously fun experience but

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initially it was not fun that was hard

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and I gradually pieced this together and

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I could not figure out

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what these memories might mean

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and I plus I was in agony I I really had

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been very roughly treated

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so I went to the doctor and I described

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the memories and he was the first one

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who sort of put it into perspective in a

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very bizarre way he said it sounds like

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you're telling me you were taking aboard

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a flying saucer by little men

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and it occurred to me at that moment

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that that was what I was saying had

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happened to me

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and I thought to myself my God I'm going

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mad I must be insane

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and it was absolutely terrifying

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so the next thing I I started fighting

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with my wife because it never occurred

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to me that anything like that could

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actually have happened

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uh what did occur to me was that it was

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a psychotic break

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I and I thought to myself Anne's going

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to be trapped with a psycho because if

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she if I become institutionalized she

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won't be able to divorce me

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and she would be with no husband with a

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little boy to raise and no source of

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income so he kept trying to say to her

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you should leave me you should get me

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get you should leave the let's you need

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to start again you need a husband who

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can who can support you and things like

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that and she was just frantic because we

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had a dear good sweet marriage and a

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very happy little seven-year-old boy and

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there was no time for something like

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that to happen

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so uh I I went out through all these

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tests

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including brain and everything and

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psychological tests and the results came

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out that I was very healthy I didn't

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have any seizure related diseases I

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didn't have anything wrong with me

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and I had

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read a book at that time while I was

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this was happening by someone named

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Jenny Randalls uh called science and the

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UFOs

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and I

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toward the end of it my brother had sent

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it to me for Christmas and he was

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interested in UFOs but I thought they

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were crinkly there was a stupid thing

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and he was Notorious for sending out bad

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Christmas presents and this had been

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classed as one of the worst

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but I but then I thought

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um

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maybe I you know should read it then I

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did

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and at the end it talked about

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uh Bud Hopkins and alien abductions and

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I thought to myself as I read it this is

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exactly what I remember happening to me

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I want to talk to this guy

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and he turned out to live just a few

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blocks from us in Manhattan

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so we went over to his house and I left

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this lovely man and uh very articulate

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and intelligent and very caring amen we

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we had trouble later over various things

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but uh I never had trouble with Bud

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Butthead was I think he was rather

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jealous of the fact that communion sold

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so much more than his book Intruders did

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which is very natural and I never even

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it never bothered me and I don't have

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any grudge against but at all I think he

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did a tremendous thing in this world

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anyway

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then I realized finally that that was

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what had happened

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I had been abducted by aliens or someone

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I mean they weren't human I I don't know

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if they came from another planet or

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exactly what they were

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but that's basically the story of

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that experience

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right and you know this would eventually

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uh culminate into the book comedian that

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you would write and I mean The Firestorm

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that the book created when it was

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released uh you know I can't even

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imagine what you could have been

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thinking or feeling uh the day the book

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came out so I love Whitley

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um put us back in that moment the day

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the book came out what were you feeling

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were you reluctant excited scared

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um proud what what was going through

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your head when finally you're like okay

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there's no turning back like this is

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real now it's out there uh what was that

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like

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well actually I had published a lot of

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books before

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and since I didn't know

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that this would

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come down that way

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it was just another book coming out I

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didn't think about it at all I don't

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recall any

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particular thoughts on that day but what

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I would like to talk about is what

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happened when I told Anne

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sure yeah okay so let me back up a

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little bit from that day

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okay um it became clear that this seemed

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to have happened

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and so

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I couldn't think what in the world I

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mean my marriage was now

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uh very unstable

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she was afraid I wanted to leave her

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and

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now more than ever that was the last

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thing I wanted but I was afraid she

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might leave me when she heard this story

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and

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so I told him a close friend Timothy

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Greenfield Saunders who's been on many

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shows and talked about this moment

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is on the uh the Travel Channel

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documentary in fact uh the visitors

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which uh is available now I think on

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YouTube and Discovery plus anyway I told

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it

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and I said I don't know how to tell in

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and he said uh just tell her just tell

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her and it's very flexible she'll she'll

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roll with it I thought I wonder if she

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will

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so I sat down with her and I said

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something I have to tell you and she

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thought of course he's going to say we

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need to separate her divorce

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and I said instead I told this story

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and then she looked at me

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and she said I was so afraid she would

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the rules would now change and she would

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say okay it is time for a divorce

282
00:12:50,629 --> 00:12:48,660
but then she said

283
00:12:52,550 --> 00:12:50,639
oh thank God

284
00:12:55,730 --> 00:12:52,560
I thought I was going to have now I

285
00:13:00,889 --> 00:12:58,370
and she rolled with it completely just

286
00:13:02,389 --> 00:13:00,899
like Timothy said she would and she took

287
00:13:06,769 --> 00:13:02,399
it over too

288
00:13:08,930 --> 00:13:06,779
she was the one she was the total

289
00:13:11,449 --> 00:13:08,940
uh

290
00:13:13,970 --> 00:13:11,459
power behind communion she read every

291
00:13:16,550 --> 00:13:13,980
page of it she's the one who titled the

292
00:13:19,250 --> 00:13:16,560
book I was going to call it body Terror

293
00:13:21,170 --> 00:13:19,260
and she was the one who later collected

294
00:13:23,690 --> 00:13:21,180
all of the thousands and thousands of

295
00:13:25,850 --> 00:13:23,700
letters and organized them that are now

296
00:13:27,769 --> 00:13:25,860
in a Priceless archive at Rice

297
00:13:30,230 --> 00:13:27,779
University in Texas

298
00:13:32,269 --> 00:13:30,240
so this you know I'm the one who's still

299
00:13:34,550 --> 00:13:32,279
got a body but Anne was the one who made

300
00:13:37,250 --> 00:13:34,560
this all happen it's as simple as that

301
00:13:39,170 --> 00:13:37,260
and I never want to I never would talk

302
00:13:41,030 --> 00:13:39,180
about this and say it was all Whitley

303
00:13:44,210 --> 00:13:41,040
Whitley Whitley because

304
00:13:46,310 --> 00:13:44,220
there was a power there a real power

305
00:13:49,009 --> 00:13:46,320
that was Anne who understood it better

306
00:13:53,449 --> 00:13:49,019
than I did from the first second

307
00:13:55,610 --> 00:13:53,459
and who was there for me and for

308
00:13:57,829 --> 00:13:55,620
everyone else involved throughout her

309
00:13:57,839 --> 00:14:00,050
um

310
00:14:03,230 --> 00:14:01,310
now

311
00:14:05,210 --> 00:14:03,240
if you want me to go on I can talk about

312
00:14:07,069 --> 00:14:05,220
what happened when

313
00:14:08,389 --> 00:14:07,079
it really did hit the fan when I

314
00:14:11,210 --> 00:14:08,399
realized that the book was going to

315
00:14:14,810 --> 00:14:11,220
cause a fairly significant stir

316
00:14:17,210 --> 00:14:14,820
sure yeah all right well

317
00:14:19,190 --> 00:14:17,220
um this is a few weeks after

318
00:14:20,870 --> 00:14:19,200
that they were sent they sent me on an

319
00:14:22,370 --> 00:14:20,880
author because they paid a lot of money

320
00:14:25,550 --> 00:14:22,380
for the book and they wanted it to sell

321
00:14:26,449 --> 00:14:25,560
of course so there I was on this author

322
00:14:29,050 --> 00:14:26,459
tour

323
00:14:31,670 --> 00:14:29,060
uh and

324
00:14:33,889 --> 00:14:31,680
getting beat up I mean quite

325
00:14:37,970 --> 00:14:33,899
significantly it was horrible I you know

326
00:14:40,850 --> 00:14:37,980
uh it was I walked on through stage

327
00:14:43,850 --> 00:14:40,860
after stage or into radio station after

328
00:14:47,449 --> 00:14:43,860
radio station to the tune of The X-Files

329
00:14:49,670 --> 00:14:47,459
uh music or the Twilight Zone music and

330
00:14:52,069 --> 00:14:49,680
was generally considered a complete boob

331
00:14:53,689 --> 00:14:52,079
for doing this and just being laughed at

332
00:14:55,970 --> 00:14:53,699
up and down

333
00:14:57,350 --> 00:14:55,980
but the public wasn't buying into that

334
00:14:59,269 --> 00:14:57,360
laughter they were buying the book

335
00:15:00,350 --> 00:14:59,279
instead

336
00:15:03,290 --> 00:15:00,360
um

337
00:15:06,769 --> 00:15:03,300
and I had a

338
00:15:08,689 --> 00:15:06,779
I got a call from my editor Jim Landis

339
00:15:10,250 --> 00:15:08,699
at William Morrow and company while I

340
00:15:11,750 --> 00:15:10,260
was on tour and somewhere probably in

341
00:15:15,590 --> 00:15:11,760
the Midwest

342
00:15:16,550 --> 00:15:15,600
and there were no cell phones then and

343
00:15:18,350 --> 00:15:16,560
so

344
00:15:19,670 --> 00:15:18,360
it was one of these things where you

345
00:15:21,230 --> 00:15:19,680
just in the airport in a call for

346
00:15:24,590 --> 00:15:21,240
quickly streaming you're like oh my God

347
00:15:27,650 --> 00:15:24,600
somebody's died I went to the public the

348
00:15:29,210 --> 00:15:27,660
phone airport and there was Jim Landis

349
00:15:30,889 --> 00:15:29,220
on the phone saying Bentley how are you

350
00:15:32,329 --> 00:15:30,899
doing and I said well I'm fine I'm

351
00:15:34,850 --> 00:15:32,339
getting on a plane in about 20 minutes

352
00:15:36,410 --> 00:15:34,860
or something I said something like that

353
00:15:38,269 --> 00:15:36,420
he said well listen I've got some news

354
00:15:40,850 --> 00:15:38,279
about the book and I thought oh my what

355
00:15:44,509 --> 00:15:40,860
could it be he said it's good news and

356
00:15:46,250 --> 00:15:44,519
bad news oh God but it's not selling so

357
00:15:48,009 --> 00:15:46,260
I said well

358
00:15:50,750 --> 00:15:48,019
uh

359
00:15:51,889 --> 00:15:50,760
I said give me the bad news first he

360
00:15:54,170 --> 00:15:51,899
said no I'm going to give you the good

361
00:15:56,870 --> 00:15:54,180
news first the good news is

362
00:15:58,129 --> 00:15:56,880
everyone at William Morrow now knows

363
00:16:00,410 --> 00:15:58,139
you're not lying

364
00:16:03,050 --> 00:16:00,420
and I thought what

365
00:16:05,750 --> 00:16:03,060
what could that be about he said now the

366
00:16:07,550 --> 00:16:05,760
bad news is the visitors think your book

367
00:16:10,850 --> 00:16:07,560
is ridiculous

368
00:16:15,470 --> 00:16:10,860
and I said Jim could you explain this a

369
00:16:18,290 --> 00:16:15,480
little further he said yeah Bruce Lee is

370
00:16:21,110 --> 00:16:18,300
not the Bruce Lee but a another editor

371
00:16:23,509 --> 00:16:21,120
at Morrow had walked into a bookstore in

372
00:16:26,930 --> 00:16:23,519
Manhattan and seen two people rapidly

373
00:16:30,889 --> 00:16:26,940
paging through communion and laughing

374
00:16:33,410 --> 00:16:30,899
and he uh went up to them and was sort

375
00:16:35,410 --> 00:16:33,420
of hovering to see if any books were

376
00:16:37,249 --> 00:16:35,420
moving off the shelves and stuff

377
00:16:39,650 --> 00:16:37,259
and

378
00:16:41,870 --> 00:16:39,660
he uh

379
00:16:44,569 --> 00:16:41,880
they stopped

380
00:16:47,810 --> 00:16:44,579
and looked up at him

381
00:16:49,670 --> 00:16:47,820
and he saw these huge black eyes under

382
00:16:52,189 --> 00:16:49,680
their hats they've been they were

383
00:16:54,949 --> 00:16:52,199
dressed in hats and overcoats

384
00:16:57,710 --> 00:16:54,959
and he thought oh my God

385
00:17:00,050 --> 00:16:57,720
it's Whitley's people and they're real

386
00:17:02,150 --> 00:17:00,060
and he and his wife immediately left the

387
00:17:04,189 --> 00:17:02,160
store because they were scared the two

388
00:17:07,010 --> 00:17:04,199
people left behind them

389
00:17:10,370 --> 00:17:07,020
and walked down the street right in the

390
00:17:12,289 --> 00:17:10,380
middle of Manhattan uh with nobody

391
00:17:15,049 --> 00:17:12,299
noticing

392
00:17:17,569 --> 00:17:15,059
which you think in Manhattan that's

393
00:17:20,809 --> 00:17:17,579
probably inevitable but it turns out

394
00:17:23,569 --> 00:17:20,819
that there is an actual psychological

395
00:17:27,049 --> 00:17:23,579
state that we all share if we don't

396
00:17:29,270 --> 00:17:27,059
expect something we're quite likely not

397
00:17:32,390 --> 00:17:29,280
to notice it

398
00:17:33,830 --> 00:17:32,400
um there's a wonderful YouTube that

399
00:17:35,510 --> 00:17:33,840
illustrates this called The Monkey

400
00:17:38,090 --> 00:17:35,520
Business illusion

401
00:17:40,490 --> 00:17:38,100
uh that that was created by the

402
00:17:42,289 --> 00:17:40,500
psychologist who really has spearheaded

403
00:17:43,850 --> 00:17:42,299
understanding of this

404
00:17:45,950 --> 00:17:43,860
and in it

405
00:17:48,770 --> 00:17:45,960
their people you're asked to pay

406
00:17:50,630 --> 00:17:48,780
attention to how many times people in a

407
00:17:52,549 --> 00:17:50,640
little group pass a ball back and forth

408
00:17:55,310 --> 00:17:52,559
to each other so you're looking at the

409
00:17:57,289 --> 00:17:55,320
video and and uh

410
00:18:00,289 --> 00:17:57,299
I'm not going to tell you what happens

411
00:18:03,289 --> 00:18:00,299
in fact I'm going to say go to the

412
00:18:05,630 --> 00:18:03,299
Monkey Business illusion in in on

413
00:18:07,909 --> 00:18:05,640
YouTube and you will understand

414
00:18:10,250 --> 00:18:07,919
why nobody noticed these aliens walking

415
00:18:13,190 --> 00:18:10,260
down the street

416
00:18:15,590 --> 00:18:13,200
so interesting there you have that and

417
00:18:18,529 --> 00:18:15,600
now I thought to myself

418
00:18:22,370 --> 00:18:18,539
not only are they real they know I'm

419
00:18:25,789 --> 00:18:22,380
here what now what will happen next

420
00:18:27,350 --> 00:18:25,799
right well what will happen next now oh

421
00:18:28,610 --> 00:18:27,360
that's fascinating by the way I'm gonna

422
00:18:31,070 --> 00:18:28,620
check that out

423
00:18:35,990 --> 00:18:31,080
um well so the book becomes a big hit

424
00:18:38,390 --> 00:18:36,000
and uh then comes the movie which is a

425
00:18:41,270 --> 00:18:38,400
whole other story I know there's a lot

426
00:18:44,210 --> 00:18:41,280
of um a lot of controversy behind the

427
00:18:46,789 --> 00:18:44,220
film but what was that like Whitley no I

428
00:18:49,909 --> 00:18:46,799
know you wrote the screenplay what was

429
00:18:53,210 --> 00:18:49,919
it like writing the book adapting into a

430
00:18:55,190 --> 00:18:53,220
movie and that entire process I I can't

431
00:18:56,990 --> 00:18:55,200
imagine it was easy

432
00:18:58,610 --> 00:18:57,000
um yeah if you if you don't mind could

433
00:19:01,490 --> 00:18:58,620
you run us through some of your uh

434
00:19:05,990 --> 00:19:01,500
you're brutally honest thoughts on the

435
00:19:07,549 --> 00:19:06,000
film uh aspect to all this oh sure uh

436
00:19:11,570 --> 00:19:07,559
the

437
00:19:14,210 --> 00:19:11,580
didn't think I should do

438
00:19:16,730 --> 00:19:14,220
because you know it's one it's hard for

439
00:19:20,090 --> 00:19:16,740
a novelist in the first place a novelist

440
00:19:23,090 --> 00:19:20,100
to write a script based on his own novel

441
00:19:26,870 --> 00:19:23,100
but for someone with a non-fiction book

442
00:19:29,630 --> 00:19:26,880
that was so personally intense

443
00:19:32,750 --> 00:19:29,640
being the screenwriter

444
00:19:35,810 --> 00:19:32,760
I I wish I wasn't sure I could do it

445
00:19:38,870 --> 00:19:35,820
but and they never liked the script very

446
00:19:41,210 --> 00:19:38,880
much I don't think but there it works

447
00:19:43,370 --> 00:19:41,220
pretty well there are parts of it that

448
00:19:45,049 --> 00:19:43,380
are intact in the movie it's not all the

449
00:19:47,210 --> 00:19:45,059
movie's not all my script

450
00:19:50,390 --> 00:19:47,220
but

451
00:19:53,870 --> 00:19:50,400
um it it works pretty well the movie

452
00:19:55,909 --> 00:19:53,880
itself was troubled in the sense that it

453
00:19:57,529 --> 00:19:55,919
was an independent production

454
00:20:00,830 --> 00:19:57,539
and

455
00:20:02,570 --> 00:20:00,840
the money was insufficient there was not

456
00:20:04,570 --> 00:20:02,580
enough money and the director had a

457
00:20:06,830 --> 00:20:04,580
tremendous struggle on his hands

458
00:20:07,870 --> 00:20:06,840
especially with the special effects

459
00:20:11,270 --> 00:20:07,880
which

460
00:20:14,029 --> 00:20:11,280
he did not get nearly

461
00:20:16,490 --> 00:20:14,039
the special effects that he had hoped

462
00:20:18,350 --> 00:20:16,500
for and that that that sort of

463
00:20:22,010 --> 00:20:18,360
diminishes the impact of the movie I

464
00:20:25,250 --> 00:20:22,020
think but overall the emotional content

465
00:20:27,950 --> 00:20:25,260
of it survived the fear

466
00:20:29,510 --> 00:20:27,960
the disruption of the family all of

467
00:20:31,549 --> 00:20:29,520
those things are in the movie and

468
00:20:34,190 --> 00:20:31,559
they're pretty good I did not like

469
00:20:35,690 --> 00:20:34,200
Christopher Walken's holding a camera on

470
00:20:37,970 --> 00:20:35,700
himself the whole time and I said it

471
00:20:39,470 --> 00:20:37,980
makes me look like a narcissist and he

472
00:20:41,150 --> 00:20:39,480
said well I what I'm trying to

473
00:20:43,730 --> 00:20:41,160
communicate is that you're trying to get

474
00:20:46,610 --> 00:20:43,740
a video record of what's Happening

475
00:20:49,430 --> 00:20:46,620
and so he did that and I didn't like it

476
00:20:51,169 --> 00:20:49,440
but that but other than that I think the

477
00:20:54,169 --> 00:20:51,179
movie comes off very well in the acting

478
00:20:56,750 --> 00:20:54,179
in it both of them Lindsey Krauss and um

479
00:20:59,270 --> 00:20:56,760
and Christopher Walken are superb actors

480
00:21:00,289 --> 00:20:59,280
in his shows they they they did a good

481
00:21:04,310 --> 00:21:00,299
job

482
00:21:06,710 --> 00:21:04,320
right and you know we always wonder when

483
00:21:08,750 --> 00:21:06,720
when these actors take on the role of an

484
00:21:11,930 --> 00:21:08,760
actual individual like their personal

485
00:21:14,810 --> 00:21:11,940
thoughts do they actually believe what

486
00:21:16,370 --> 00:21:14,820
what is occurring um but at the end of

487
00:21:19,789 --> 00:21:16,380
the day it doesn't really matter like

488
00:21:22,090 --> 00:21:19,799
they are creating a a truth of something

489
00:21:25,310 --> 00:21:22,100
that uh they'll never truly understand

490
00:21:27,169 --> 00:21:25,320
but live in that character so did you

491
00:21:29,390 --> 00:21:27,179
ever have those conversations with

492
00:21:33,230 --> 00:21:29,400
Christopher as well Christopher Walken

493
00:21:34,970 --> 00:21:33,240
of um did he believe your story or what

494
00:21:37,010 --> 00:21:34,980
were those conversations like I'm

495
00:21:38,990 --> 00:21:37,020
curious

496
00:21:41,990 --> 00:21:39,000
I don't know whether he believed my

497
00:21:45,230 --> 00:21:42,000
story or not I never asked him

498
00:21:47,450 --> 00:21:45,240
um we did have some lunches and things

499
00:21:49,549 --> 00:21:47,460
as I recall during the early days of the

500
00:21:52,970 --> 00:21:49,559
movie of making the movie where he got

501
00:21:54,190 --> 00:21:52,980
sort of an idea about me as a person and

502
00:21:57,070 --> 00:21:54,200
um

503
00:21:59,270 --> 00:21:57,080
we didn't see much of Lindsey Krauss

504
00:22:01,789 --> 00:21:59,280
interestingly enough Ann and I were on

505
00:22:05,409 --> 00:22:01,799
the set most of the time

506
00:22:08,390 --> 00:22:05,419
only and it didn't bother Lindsay and

507
00:22:09,770 --> 00:22:08,400
Christopher at all they didn't they

508
00:22:11,029 --> 00:22:09,780
never complained about it in the least

509
00:22:12,230 --> 00:22:11,039
they were perfectly happy to have us

510
00:22:14,090 --> 00:22:12,240
there

511
00:22:15,830 --> 00:22:14,100
some actors wouldn't have wanted us

512
00:22:17,210 --> 00:22:15,840
anywhere near the set because I mean

513
00:22:19,310 --> 00:22:17,220
they were portraying us and we were

514
00:22:22,070 --> 00:22:19,320
watching them do it

515
00:22:24,529 --> 00:22:22,080
um and we had a fairly I had a fairly

516
00:22:26,750 --> 00:22:24,539
friendly relationship with Christopher I

517
00:22:30,230 --> 00:22:26,760
don't recall my relationship with

518
00:22:31,970 --> 00:22:30,240
Lindsay so it must have been not very

519
00:22:33,830 --> 00:22:31,980
complicated you know in other words we

520
00:22:35,450 --> 00:22:33,840
must have sort of seen each other in

521
00:22:36,289 --> 00:22:35,460
passing

522
00:22:38,270 --> 00:22:36,299
um

523
00:22:40,130 --> 00:22:38,280
Anne was glad of Lindsay playing her

524
00:22:42,409 --> 00:22:40,140
because she thought the world she

525
00:22:44,750 --> 00:22:42,419
thought the world of her acting and you

526
00:22:47,570 --> 00:22:44,760
know she wasn't some kind of some

527
00:22:49,490 --> 00:22:47,580
someone very glamorous she had a she had

528
00:22:52,549 --> 00:22:49,500
a more down to earth appearance this is

529
00:22:54,590 --> 00:22:52,559
the same to end than Anne does and or

530
00:22:55,970 --> 00:22:54,600
did in her lifetime

531
00:23:00,350 --> 00:22:55,980
so

532
00:23:03,770 --> 00:23:00,360
uh that part of it was fairly smooth

533
00:23:04,549 --> 00:23:03,780
Christopher was a funny guy and we used

534
00:23:08,270 --> 00:23:04,559
to

535
00:23:09,649 --> 00:23:08,280
pal around a bit and he he he said you

536
00:23:11,330 --> 00:23:09,659
have to understand me I'm not an

537
00:23:14,690 --> 00:23:11,340
alcoholic I'm a wino

538
00:23:16,390 --> 00:23:14,700
and I said do you mean that you're drunk

539
00:23:19,310 --> 00:23:16,400
all the time he said not all the time

540
00:23:21,310 --> 00:23:19,320
but we had he was a fun guy he was

541
00:23:24,909 --> 00:23:21,320
really very much fun to be with

542
00:23:28,370 --> 00:23:24,919
I can imagine yeah and he brought such a

543
00:23:30,409 --> 00:23:28,380
eccentric uh just Flair to the film that

544
00:23:32,149 --> 00:23:30,419
I think was needed whether that's true

545
00:23:34,250 --> 00:23:32,159
to your life or not

546
00:23:36,289 --> 00:23:34,260
um that's for you to decide but I

547
00:23:39,649 --> 00:23:36,299
thought he did a wonderful job I do I'm

548
00:23:41,510 --> 00:23:39,659
I'm very in in private life

549
00:23:44,630 --> 00:23:41,520
I am

550
00:23:46,310 --> 00:23:44,640
people would let are going to see this

551
00:23:48,770 --> 00:23:46,320
who know me are going to laugh their

552
00:23:51,770 --> 00:23:48,780
heads off I think of myself as being

553
00:23:54,070 --> 00:23:51,780
down to Earth but I am apparently not

554
00:23:59,990 --> 00:23:54,080
down to earth at all

555
00:24:02,029 --> 00:24:00,000
and and um I have I I'd love to laugh I

556
00:24:05,870 --> 00:24:02,039
have a sense of humor and I love to

557
00:24:08,570 --> 00:24:05,880
laugh and tell funny stories and um

558
00:24:10,130 --> 00:24:08,580
listen to funny stories from other

559
00:24:12,890 --> 00:24:10,140
people I'm not much into things like

560
00:24:14,750 --> 00:24:12,900
politics and I'm not I don't really care

561
00:24:16,970 --> 00:24:14,760
about that stuff I you know it just

562
00:24:20,149 --> 00:24:16,980
comes and goes as far as I am concerned

563
00:24:22,010 --> 00:24:20,159
and you know my only concern is I don't

564
00:24:24,649 --> 00:24:22,020
want to end up in a dictatorship because

565
00:24:27,730 --> 00:24:24,659
I'm I'm no good at keeping my mouth shut

566
00:24:30,049 --> 00:24:27,740
and I probably end up in jail

567
00:24:32,990 --> 00:24:30,059
you know I don't worry about that stuff

568
00:24:36,950 --> 00:24:33,000
much but I have a fun line frankly I you

569
00:24:40,010 --> 00:24:36,960
know I I miss my wife terribly but she's

570
00:24:43,010 --> 00:24:40,020
still with me in many respects the book

571
00:24:44,930 --> 00:24:43,020
afterlife Revolution talks about that

572
00:24:46,730 --> 00:24:44,940
and it's still very true

573
00:24:49,310 --> 00:24:46,740
so

574
00:24:52,270 --> 00:24:49,320
you know it's it's an unusual life but I

575
00:24:55,070 --> 00:24:52,280
wouldn't trade it for anything uh

576
00:24:56,990 --> 00:24:55,080
uh one of the visitors called me the

577
00:24:59,390 --> 00:24:57,000
luckiest of the lucky

578
00:25:01,430 --> 00:24:59,400
and I thought what in the world what

579
00:25:04,850 --> 00:25:01,440
kind of sadistic sense of humors

580
00:25:07,330 --> 00:25:04,860
involved here but now I understand it it

581
00:25:10,250 --> 00:25:07,340
may be to a degree true

582
00:25:13,789 --> 00:25:10,260
interesting well I'd love to touch on

583
00:25:16,669 --> 00:25:13,799
that afterlife aspect uh a lot of your

584
00:25:19,610 --> 00:25:16,679
later work uh dives into this and and

585
00:25:22,130 --> 00:25:19,620
that's what I find most intriguing is uh

586
00:25:23,810 --> 00:25:22,140
how we interpret the visitors and what

587
00:25:26,510 --> 00:25:23,820
they could mean and how this could all

588
00:25:28,909 --> 00:25:26,520
somehow be connected and um I'd love to

589
00:25:31,310 --> 00:25:28,919
ask you Whitley one of our patreon

590
00:25:33,470 --> 00:25:31,320
subscribers uh wanted to know this from

591
00:25:34,909 --> 00:25:33,480
you one of our listener questions and it

592
00:25:38,029 --> 00:25:34,919
has to do with that

593
00:25:40,970 --> 00:25:38,039
um in Leslie Kane's 2017 book surviving

594
00:25:42,830 --> 00:25:40,980
death she did details contact from

595
00:25:45,529 --> 00:25:42,840
Beyond the Veil with your mutual friend

596
00:25:48,470 --> 00:25:45,539
Bud Hopkins did Hopkins ever get word

597
00:25:51,830 --> 00:25:48,480
back to you later in a similar fashion

598
00:25:54,169 --> 00:25:51,840
after his death I know you talk a lot

599
00:25:55,070 --> 00:25:54,179
about and doing this as well so if you'd

600
00:25:56,930 --> 00:25:55,080
like to

601
00:25:58,730 --> 00:25:56,940
um you know talk about both of them and

602
00:26:01,190 --> 00:25:58,740
if they've ever visited you I'd love to

603
00:26:03,710 --> 00:26:01,200
hear that yeah well there's a lot of

604
00:26:04,549 --> 00:26:03,720
love between bud and Leslie and that's

605
00:26:07,310 --> 00:26:04,559
why

606
00:26:10,310 --> 00:26:07,320
Leslie but could come back to Leslie

607
00:26:13,070 --> 00:26:10,320
because his love is like a path that you

608
00:26:16,010 --> 00:26:13,080
can follow from the other side

609
00:26:17,810 --> 00:26:16,020
um I only had one brief brief encounter

610
00:26:20,730 --> 00:26:17,820
with Bud after he died

611
00:26:23,690 --> 00:26:20,740
he just laughed at me he disappeared

612
00:26:29,810 --> 00:26:23,700
[Laughter]

613
00:26:34,850 --> 00:26:33,169
Anne was a different story

614
00:26:37,010 --> 00:26:34,860
and

615
00:26:38,570 --> 00:26:37,020
during the communion years when she was

616
00:26:40,669 --> 00:26:38,580
reading all the letters

617
00:26:42,890 --> 00:26:40,679
she came out of her office one day and

618
00:26:45,169 --> 00:26:42,900
said Whitley this has something to do

619
00:26:47,269 --> 00:26:45,179
with what we call death

620
00:26:48,769 --> 00:26:47,279
and which it does it also has something

621
00:26:53,510 --> 00:26:48,779
to do with family

622
00:26:55,430 --> 00:26:53,520
in ways that we do not understand yet

623
00:26:57,470 --> 00:26:55,440
and

624
00:26:59,990 --> 00:26:57,480
I discussed this extensively by the way

625
00:27:03,409 --> 00:27:00,000
in my new book them which is coming out

626
00:27:05,210 --> 00:27:03,419
hopefully before Christmas I gotta get a

627
00:27:06,830 --> 00:27:05,220
get on the stick but in any case

628
00:27:08,390 --> 00:27:06,840
hopefully before Christmas or right

629
00:27:10,310 --> 00:27:08,400
after

630
00:27:12,370 --> 00:27:10,320
so

631
00:27:14,990 --> 00:27:12,380
um

632
00:27:16,730 --> 00:27:15,000
what happened was

633
00:27:20,750 --> 00:27:16,740
she died

634
00:27:23,570 --> 00:27:20,760
and she had become she had had a stroke

635
00:27:24,950 --> 00:27:23,580
and a near-death experience and had read

636
00:27:26,870 --> 00:27:24,960
all of these letters and really

637
00:27:28,850 --> 00:27:26,880
understood

638
00:27:31,190 --> 00:27:28,860
the relationship between the living and

639
00:27:32,750 --> 00:27:31,200
the dead and what the soul was better

640
00:27:34,010 --> 00:27:32,760
than anyone I've ever known I mean she

641
00:27:36,470 --> 00:27:34,020
was one of the smartest people I ever

642
00:27:39,350 --> 00:27:36,480
knew if not the smartest and she could

643
00:27:40,730 --> 00:27:39,360
pick up things on the immense very

644
00:27:42,010 --> 00:27:40,740
quickly

645
00:27:46,070 --> 00:27:42,020
so

646
00:27:48,409 --> 00:27:46,080
she um she she passed on

647
00:27:50,990 --> 00:27:48,419
and I was sitting in the living room

648
00:27:53,690 --> 00:27:51,000
about an hour and a half later

649
00:27:55,549 --> 00:27:53,700
just devastated wondering if I could

650
00:27:57,470 --> 00:27:55,559
even live through the night myself I

651
00:28:00,710 --> 00:27:57,480
wanted to be with her so badly

652
00:28:03,350 --> 00:28:00,720
we were so close you still are

653
00:28:05,930 --> 00:28:03,360
suddenly the phone rang and I thought oh

654
00:28:09,590 --> 00:28:05,940
no I don't want to call because no one

655
00:28:12,049 --> 00:28:09,600
knew yet except a very few close friends

656
00:28:16,250 --> 00:28:12,059
and this was not one of them this was a

657
00:28:17,870 --> 00:28:16,260
friend called Bell Fuller who we knew I

658
00:28:19,730 --> 00:28:17,880
mean you know we went out with her and

659
00:28:21,409 --> 00:28:19,740
her husband from time to time

660
00:28:24,350 --> 00:28:21,419
but

661
00:28:26,090 --> 00:28:24,360
not well and I certainly hadn't told

662
00:28:28,909 --> 00:28:26,100
Bill Fuller a thing

663
00:28:31,610 --> 00:28:28,919
and she said I thought I don't want to

664
00:28:33,769 --> 00:28:31,620
answer this call but then I did I mean

665
00:28:35,390 --> 00:28:33,779
because Belle was Anne's friend and and

666
00:28:36,830 --> 00:28:35,400
liked her very much and I'm just not

667
00:28:38,090 --> 00:28:36,840
going to just not

668
00:28:40,669 --> 00:28:38,100
tell her

669
00:28:44,450 --> 00:28:40,679
so I answered the phone

670
00:28:47,510 --> 00:28:44,460
and she immediately says not not hello

671
00:28:50,769 --> 00:28:47,520
but quickly I just had this thing happen

672
00:28:54,890 --> 00:28:50,779
I heard Anne's voice say to call you

673
00:28:57,289 --> 00:28:54,900
and at that moment I had been when the

674
00:29:01,190 --> 00:28:57,299
phone rang thinking Annie if you still

675
00:29:02,990 --> 00:29:01,200
exist in any way please please give me a

676
00:29:05,750 --> 00:29:03,000
sign

677
00:29:07,750 --> 00:29:05,760
and that immediately happened

678
00:29:11,390 --> 00:29:07,760
and that shocked me

679
00:29:14,269 --> 00:29:11,400
and I thought could this be real

680
00:29:15,470 --> 00:29:14,279
over the next week it happened again and

681
00:29:17,870 --> 00:29:15,480
again

682
00:29:21,169 --> 00:29:17,880
and then I vaguely remember it I'm still

683
00:29:24,830 --> 00:29:21,179
not absolutely sure we did this but I

684
00:29:26,570 --> 00:29:24,840
think we made a kind of pact at some

685
00:29:29,950 --> 00:29:26,580
point in our lives that the first person

686
00:29:33,049 --> 00:29:29,960
to die in the couple would

687
00:29:35,870 --> 00:29:33,059
would try to come back not to the other

688
00:29:37,669 --> 00:29:35,880
one directly but to friends so to get

689
00:29:39,409 --> 00:29:37,679
the friends to tell

690
00:29:41,269 --> 00:29:39,419
the person because neither one of us

691
00:29:42,470 --> 00:29:41,279
would believe it if they can't if she'd

692
00:29:44,210 --> 00:29:42,480
just come back to me I wouldn't have

693
00:29:45,769 --> 00:29:44,220
even written the book because I would

694
00:29:48,049 --> 00:29:45,779
have assumed it was just my wishful

695
00:29:50,330 --> 00:29:48,059
thinking and Imagination

696
00:29:53,330 --> 00:29:50,340
but she didn't do it that way

697
00:29:56,450 --> 00:29:53,340
and it became much more complex

698
00:29:59,570 --> 00:29:56,460
because in January before she died in

699
00:30:01,669 --> 00:29:59,580
August she had

700
00:30:06,350 --> 00:30:01,679
been

701
00:30:08,149 --> 00:30:06,360
asking me to remember to to memorize a

702
00:30:10,669 --> 00:30:08,159
certain point called song of the

703
00:30:12,350 --> 00:30:10,679
wandering Angus and I did not know why

704
00:30:15,769 --> 00:30:12,360
Annie never asked me to memorize

705
00:30:18,950 --> 00:30:15,779
anything let alone a point and when I

706
00:30:21,830 --> 00:30:18,960
sort of ignored this she cried she was

707
00:30:24,649 --> 00:30:21,840
and I thought my God this is really

708
00:30:26,029 --> 00:30:24,659
important to him and I memorized that

709
00:30:32,570 --> 00:30:26,039
poem

710
00:30:35,750 --> 00:30:32,580
when white moths are on the wing and the

711
00:30:40,730 --> 00:30:35,760
moth-like stars are flickering out

712
00:30:44,090 --> 00:30:40,740
and that line is very important because

713
00:30:47,930 --> 00:30:44,100
about three months after

714
00:30:50,510 --> 00:30:47,940
not that long but some maybe it's more

715
00:30:54,409 --> 00:30:50,520
like six weeks after Annie passed away

716
00:30:56,930 --> 00:30:54,419
I went to a UFO conference in Arkansas I

717
00:30:59,330 --> 00:30:56,940
was invited to it

718
00:31:02,029 --> 00:30:59,340
and as a speaker

719
00:31:04,970 --> 00:31:02,039
and while I was there the cat the house

720
00:31:06,590 --> 00:31:04,980
had a lot of cameras in it it still does

721
00:31:09,409 --> 00:31:06,600
by the way of course

722
00:31:11,210 --> 00:31:09,419
but this white moth started flying back

723
00:31:13,370 --> 00:31:11,220
and forth in front of the camera in the

724
00:31:16,130 --> 00:31:13,380
living room and I thought what in the

725
00:31:17,810 --> 00:31:16,140
world have I now gotten Moss I had no

726
00:31:20,990 --> 00:31:17,820
Moss when I left

727
00:31:22,669 --> 00:31:21,000
but it didn't just fly past it went back

728
00:31:25,130 --> 00:31:22,679
and forth back and forth like it was

729
00:31:28,490 --> 00:31:25,140
showing itself to the camera

730
00:31:30,769 --> 00:31:28,500
and I showed this video that that the

731
00:31:32,630 --> 00:31:30,779
camera was sending out to some people at

732
00:31:34,850 --> 00:31:32,640
the conference one of them was a

733
00:31:37,549 --> 00:31:34,860
powerful psychic and he immediately said

734
00:31:39,769 --> 00:31:37,559
that's known ordinary moth

735
00:31:41,389 --> 00:31:39,779
and then another lady said they don't do

736
00:31:42,350 --> 00:31:41,399
that they don't just fly back and forth

737
00:31:44,090 --> 00:31:42,360
like that

738
00:31:46,789 --> 00:31:44,100
there's something there there's some

739
00:31:48,409 --> 00:31:46,799
something telling you something

740
00:31:50,510 --> 00:31:48,419
and that was the beginning of the white

741
00:31:53,990 --> 00:31:50,520
moth experience

742
00:31:56,269 --> 00:31:54,000
then I realized that Anne's favorite of

743
00:31:59,389 --> 00:31:56,279
all my short stories

744
00:32:01,789 --> 00:31:59,399
was called the white moths

745
00:32:05,169 --> 00:32:01,799
and it's about a woman who dies in this

746
00:32:08,090 --> 00:32:05,179
discovering that she has died

747
00:32:09,590 --> 00:32:08,100
and I thought my God

748
00:32:13,549 --> 00:32:09,600
and

749
00:32:17,149 --> 00:32:13,559
not only is still with me she has

750
00:32:24,049 --> 00:32:21,590
to be in this world and I began to write

751
00:32:25,730 --> 00:32:24,059
about all of this that was happening and

752
00:32:28,730 --> 00:32:25,740
it's developed into

753
00:32:31,730 --> 00:32:28,740
a very strong and extraordinary

754
00:32:34,010 --> 00:32:31,740
relationship Ann and I are still very

755
00:32:36,830 --> 00:32:34,020
much married the last time I had

756
00:32:39,889 --> 00:32:36,840
physical contact with Anne was last

757
00:32:41,649 --> 00:32:39,899
night at 11 and that happens every few

758
00:32:44,149 --> 00:32:41,659
days

759
00:32:46,610 --> 00:32:44,159
uh she's here

760
00:32:48,889 --> 00:32:46,620
and the contact consists of this

761
00:32:50,090 --> 00:32:48,899
vibration that will come into my lower

762
00:32:53,570 --> 00:32:50,100
legs

763
00:32:56,389 --> 00:32:53,580
when in 11 I was meditating very deeply

764
00:32:59,750 --> 00:32:56,399
and I fell asleep in the chair

765
00:33:01,430 --> 00:32:59,760
and Annie and this vibration immediately

766
00:33:02,810 --> 00:33:01,440
woke me up and I realized I was falling

767
00:33:05,870 --> 00:33:02,820
asleep in the chair it's time to go to

768
00:33:08,510 --> 00:33:05,880
bed and this happens not not

769
00:33:09,470 --> 00:33:08,520
uh once or twice in a blue moon it

770
00:33:12,710 --> 00:33:09,480
happens

771
00:33:15,710 --> 00:33:12,720
six or seven times a week I mean it

772
00:33:18,009 --> 00:33:15,720
happens every other day it and sometimes

773
00:33:21,409 --> 00:33:18,019
more than once a day and it's always

774
00:33:23,029 --> 00:33:21,419
involved in in sort of reminding me of

775
00:33:25,370 --> 00:33:23,039
things I need to do

776
00:33:28,310 --> 00:33:25,380
and

777
00:33:31,009 --> 00:33:28,320
so it's a proactive presence in my life

778
00:33:33,950 --> 00:33:31,019
and I frankly can't believe anyone would

779
00:33:35,870 --> 00:33:33,960
care that much about my life except Anne

780
00:33:38,210 --> 00:33:35,880
and especially because

781
00:33:40,970 --> 00:33:38,220
when I'm in a public situation and I

782
00:33:43,490 --> 00:33:40,980
fall asleep it happens immediately and

783
00:33:46,070 --> 00:33:43,500
strongly it wakes me right up and she

784
00:33:48,110 --> 00:33:46,080
was always very annoyed at me because

785
00:33:50,930 --> 00:33:48,120
when we went to plays and movies and

786
00:33:54,470 --> 00:33:50,940
things I would fall asleep and she would

787
00:33:56,450 --> 00:33:54,480
jostle me and wake me up and sometimes I

788
00:33:57,289 --> 00:33:56,460
would snort especially in the theater

789
00:34:04,789 --> 00:33:57,299
and

790
00:34:08,930 --> 00:34:04,799
going to just leave it's so embarrassing

791
00:34:10,369 --> 00:34:08,940
so it still happens though she'll do

792
00:34:15,530 --> 00:34:10,379
this to me when I'm asleep in the

793
00:34:19,310 --> 00:34:15,540
theater though like so anyway

794
00:34:22,310 --> 00:34:19,320
I realized it was a it had to be it

795
00:34:23,389 --> 00:34:22,320
and it still is this is why I wear both

796
00:34:26,389 --> 00:34:23,399
rings

797
00:34:30,349 --> 00:34:26,399
my ring and Anne's ring

798
00:34:33,169 --> 00:34:30,359
because we are still together but we

799
00:34:34,210 --> 00:34:33,179
only have one body going at the present

800
00:34:37,669 --> 00:34:34,220
time

801
00:34:38,629 --> 00:34:37,679
wow that's very powerful I I really like

802
00:34:40,490 --> 00:34:38,639
that

803
00:34:42,970 --> 00:34:40,500
um I gotta ask on a personal level

804
00:34:45,349 --> 00:34:42,980
Whitley um if you're comfortable

805
00:34:50,089 --> 00:34:45,359
answering uh

806
00:34:52,550 --> 00:34:50,099
do you think Anne's visitations

807
00:34:55,010 --> 00:34:52,560
are connected in any way to the visitors

808
00:34:57,770 --> 00:34:55,020
or are these things that you

809
00:35:00,290 --> 00:34:57,780
compartmentalize and keep separate uh I

810
00:35:04,550 --> 00:35:00,300
I love to know how does your experiences

811
00:35:06,770 --> 00:35:04,560
with the visitors uh influence these

812
00:35:13,089 --> 00:35:06,780
visits you get from Anne do they in any

813
00:35:18,890 --> 00:35:16,190
hey guys Ryan here and I've got some

814
00:35:22,250 --> 00:35:18,900
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815
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816
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817
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818
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819
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831
00:36:03,650 --> 00:36:01,040
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832
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836
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837
00:36:29,750 --> 00:36:26,569
I can explain it very precisely no

838
00:36:32,390 --> 00:36:29,760
the difference between us and

839
00:36:34,069 --> 00:36:32,400
the who is with us for the most part and

840
00:36:35,630 --> 00:36:34,079
there's lots of different forms here I

841
00:36:38,270 --> 00:36:35,640
don't think they have many I mean

842
00:36:40,849 --> 00:36:38,280
they're not all like this

843
00:36:42,650 --> 00:36:40,859
but the little gray people

844
00:36:45,170 --> 00:36:42,660
some of the others

845
00:36:47,569 --> 00:36:45,180
do not have

846
00:36:49,609 --> 00:36:47,579
any barrier

847
00:36:52,190 --> 00:36:49,619
between what we think of as the living

848
00:36:54,829 --> 00:36:52,200
and the dead

849
00:36:56,510 --> 00:36:54,839
they can come in and out of bodies

850
00:36:58,250 --> 00:36:56,520
easily

851
00:37:00,770 --> 00:36:58,260
and when they're out of the bodies

852
00:37:03,770 --> 00:37:00,780
they're in the same

853
00:37:06,890 --> 00:37:03,780
state of energy that our dead are in and

854
00:37:07,849 --> 00:37:06,900
so they're together with our own dead in

855
00:37:09,530 --> 00:37:07,859
that state

856
00:37:12,829 --> 00:37:09,540
and then when they're in the physical

857
00:37:15,710 --> 00:37:12,839
body they're in the flow of time

858
00:37:20,270 --> 00:37:15,720
we live in the Stream of time and we

859
00:37:23,870 --> 00:37:20,280
live here because we are our purpose is

860
00:37:25,609 --> 00:37:23,880
to gain the energy of life and bring it

861
00:37:28,670 --> 00:37:25,619
into our souls

862
00:37:31,069 --> 00:37:28,680
and this is the most this is one of the

863
00:37:34,370 --> 00:37:31,079
oldest beliefs in human

864
00:37:36,950 --> 00:37:34,380
in human in the human world in fact it's

865
00:37:39,950 --> 00:37:36,960
described in great detail in the pyramid

866
00:37:42,109 --> 00:37:39,960
text in the Pyramid of Eunice in Egypt

867
00:37:44,210 --> 00:37:42,119
which is the oldest religious text in

868
00:37:46,190 --> 00:37:44,220
the world but I think it's not a

869
00:37:49,810 --> 00:37:46,200
religious text I think it's actually the

870
00:37:52,310 --> 00:37:49,820
first or the last text of Soul science

871
00:37:53,930 --> 00:37:52,320
written by people who knew this and

872
00:37:57,650 --> 00:37:53,940
understood it

873
00:38:00,650 --> 00:37:57,660
but it's understandable again and so

874
00:38:04,490 --> 00:38:00,660
that they are in both worlds very

875
00:38:07,010 --> 00:38:04,500
comfortably we are in we are in the

876
00:38:09,710 --> 00:38:07,020
physical learning

877
00:38:12,470 --> 00:38:09,720
and gaining energy from what we learn

878
00:38:15,109 --> 00:38:12,480
and do in life this is also one of the

879
00:38:16,970 --> 00:38:15,119
reasons we're so scared of them I was

880
00:38:18,950 --> 00:38:16,980
terrified when they would show up for a

881
00:38:20,329 --> 00:38:18,960
long time and I gradually came to

882
00:38:22,730 --> 00:38:20,339
understand

883
00:38:24,710 --> 00:38:22,740
that they won't

884
00:38:26,270 --> 00:38:24,720
take me out of the time stream they

885
00:38:28,670 --> 00:38:26,280
won't I won't end up in a state of

886
00:38:30,470 --> 00:38:28,680
permanent Deja Vu which would happen if

887
00:38:32,270 --> 00:38:30,480
you were if you saw your whole future

888
00:38:33,170 --> 00:38:32,280
life

889
00:38:35,690 --> 00:38:33,180
um

890
00:38:37,609 --> 00:38:35,700
they're not going to let that happen

891
00:38:39,770 --> 00:38:37,619
and people say oh they're terrible and

892
00:38:43,609 --> 00:38:39,780
they're evil and so forth this is a

893
00:38:46,609 --> 00:38:43,619
school and they're they're they they are

894
00:38:49,910 --> 00:38:46,619
the teachers and professors and our own

895
00:38:52,010 --> 00:38:49,920
dad are involved too Annie is certainly

896
00:38:55,069 --> 00:38:52,020
a teacher in this school because the

897
00:38:57,349 --> 00:38:55,079
white moth Avatar is something many many

898
00:39:01,069 --> 00:38:57,359
people experience it's not hard to get

899
00:39:03,589 --> 00:39:01,079
involved with Anne and his uh stands

900
00:39:06,829 --> 00:39:03,599
ready to get involved in the life of

901
00:39:09,589 --> 00:39:06,839
anyone who wants to and she has a lot of

902
00:39:13,609 --> 00:39:09,599
fun she's a she's a happy

903
00:39:16,450 --> 00:39:13,619
that person I would say that for sure

904
00:39:21,230 --> 00:39:16,460
um so

905
00:39:24,230 --> 00:39:21,240
they're very much involved in with our

906
00:39:26,810 --> 00:39:24,240
dad and with our living

907
00:39:29,270 --> 00:39:26,820
and you know we're going to go through a

908
00:39:31,430 --> 00:39:29,280
hard time on planet Earth it's there's

909
00:39:32,329 --> 00:39:31,440
too many of us and the planet will break

910
00:39:34,609 --> 00:39:32,339
down

911
00:39:37,510 --> 00:39:34,619
very profoundly over the next few years

912
00:39:40,609 --> 00:39:37,520
which most people now realize

913
00:39:43,010 --> 00:39:40,619
and they're here

914
00:39:45,170 --> 00:39:43,020
I think is kind of midwives to birth us

915
00:39:47,150 --> 00:39:45,180
into a new kind of life I think that's

916
00:39:49,010 --> 00:39:47,160
what this is really all about

917
00:39:53,349 --> 00:39:49,020
they're not evil

918
00:39:58,670 --> 00:39:53,359
they're just very very strict

919
00:40:00,470 --> 00:39:58,680
and the military has misunderstood them

920
00:40:02,089 --> 00:40:00,480
because these

921
00:40:05,270 --> 00:40:02,099
you know they understood them in the

922
00:40:07,370 --> 00:40:05,280
context of the the officers in the early

923
00:40:09,710 --> 00:40:07,380
days the politicians who knew about it

924
00:40:11,450 --> 00:40:09,720
in the 40s and 50s in the context of

925
00:40:13,670 --> 00:40:11,460
their own religious beliefs

926
00:40:16,069 --> 00:40:13,680
and they were very scary the visitors

927
00:40:19,370 --> 00:40:16,079
and so they assumed they were demons

928
00:40:22,970 --> 00:40:19,380
but and they still live by that belief I

929
00:40:24,770 --> 00:40:22,980
think and still shoot at them a lot uh

930
00:40:27,109 --> 00:40:24,780
the um

931
00:40:32,030 --> 00:40:27,119
uh

932
00:40:37,910 --> 00:40:34,430
We Fear them

933
00:40:40,730 --> 00:40:37,920
because we fear being withdrawn from the

934
00:40:41,990 --> 00:40:40,740
stream of time in the same sense that a

935
00:40:44,630 --> 00:40:42,000
fish

936
00:40:47,329 --> 00:40:44,640
if it was withdrawn from the when it is

937
00:40:50,150 --> 00:40:47,339
withdrawn from the water and enters a

938
00:40:52,550 --> 00:40:50,160
completely new and untenable environment

939
00:40:55,490 --> 00:40:52,560
that it can't live in for long

940
00:40:57,710 --> 00:40:55,500
becomes obviously very frightened

941
00:40:59,329 --> 00:40:57,720
and when they approach us from the edge

942
00:41:03,050 --> 00:40:59,339
of

943
00:41:04,970 --> 00:41:03,060
and touch us

944
00:41:07,010 --> 00:41:04,980
we react with fear

945
00:41:09,530 --> 00:41:07,020
I I don't anymore

946
00:41:14,089 --> 00:41:09,540
because I'm I've learned over the years

947
00:41:16,550 --> 00:41:14,099
to trust them not to take me out of the

948
00:41:18,050 --> 00:41:16,560
stream of time where I belong

949
00:41:21,050 --> 00:41:18,060
but

950
00:41:23,930 --> 00:41:21,060
and a lot of other people too I mean

951
00:41:26,270 --> 00:41:23,940
contact's working really well but it's

952
00:41:28,849 --> 00:41:26,280
very much behind the scenes you don't

953
00:41:30,530 --> 00:41:28,859
see it in the in the public in the books

954
00:41:32,870 --> 00:41:30,540
you know the scary stories and stuff

955
00:41:36,410 --> 00:41:32,880
some writers some people who are in the

956
00:41:37,970 --> 00:41:36,420
experience do wonderful books but mostly

957
00:41:40,130 --> 00:41:37,980
you know the ones that are trying to

958
00:41:42,890 --> 00:41:40,140
sell the story tell horror horror

959
00:41:45,530 --> 00:41:42,900
stories that are largely not true

960
00:41:47,690 --> 00:41:45,540
but it's going well contact's working

961
00:41:49,370 --> 00:41:47,700
fine I'm not concerned about it and I

962
00:41:51,349 --> 00:41:49,380
don't care about disclosure or any of

963
00:41:54,950 --> 00:41:51,359
that stuff it's irrelevant to me

964
00:41:57,230 --> 00:41:54,960
what matters is contact between us and

965
00:41:59,329 --> 00:41:57,240
them and making it work in such a way

966
00:42:01,250 --> 00:41:59,339
that is useful for us

967
00:42:04,430 --> 00:42:01,260
that's what matters

968
00:42:06,710 --> 00:42:04,440
I I like that positive uh way of looking

969
00:42:08,810 --> 00:42:06,720
at it you know we had uh Mitch Horowitz

970
00:42:11,990 --> 00:42:08,820
a friendly colleague of yours on the

971
00:42:15,589 --> 00:42:12,000
show last week and uh you know he feels

972
00:42:17,210 --> 00:42:15,599
very optimistic about the future of the

973
00:42:20,089 --> 00:42:17,220
connection and the convergence of the

974
00:42:24,230 --> 00:42:20,099
occult and UFOs and a lot of that was

975
00:42:28,790 --> 00:42:24,240
because of uh you know this post New

976
00:42:31,010 --> 00:42:28,800
York Times 2017 UFO world we live in

977
00:42:33,650 --> 00:42:31,020
um and you bring up so many good points

978
00:42:35,450 --> 00:42:33,660
of fear fear fear and that seems to be a

979
00:42:37,970 --> 00:42:35,460
lot of the what's motivating The

980
00:42:40,790 --> 00:42:37,980
Narrative right now in the UFO field is

981
00:42:43,790 --> 00:42:40,800
National Security and what could these

982
00:42:47,150 --> 00:42:43,800
be and we need to open this office and

983
00:42:49,150 --> 00:42:47,160
have the military look at UFOs so I love

984
00:42:51,530 --> 00:42:49,160
your personal thoughts

985
00:42:54,010 --> 00:42:51,540
yeah what are your thoughts on all that

986
00:42:57,290 --> 00:42:54,020
because they're bigger than ever

987
00:42:59,630 --> 00:42:57,300
NASA is going to get involved but it the

988
00:43:02,210 --> 00:42:59,640
NASA thing is is a new Condon report

989
00:43:04,609 --> 00:43:02,220
because they started out saying there's

990
00:43:06,349 --> 00:43:04,619
no evidence it's extraterrestrials so

991
00:43:08,569 --> 00:43:06,359
what are they going to tell us and why

992
00:43:10,490 --> 00:43:08,579
do they only look at UFOs they never

993
00:43:11,809 --> 00:43:10,500
look beyond that and they're very scared

994
00:43:13,910 --> 00:43:11,819
of that because they're afraid that

995
00:43:16,849 --> 00:43:13,920
they'll be made ridiculous in the public

996
00:43:19,370 --> 00:43:16,859
and they won't get the funding that they

997
00:43:22,390 --> 00:43:19,380
are looking for that they can only get

998
00:43:25,069 --> 00:43:22,400
if they characterize this as a threat

999
00:43:29,270 --> 00:43:25,079
their children

1000
00:43:31,430 --> 00:43:29,280
but not all of us are children

1001
00:43:34,190 --> 00:43:31,440
there's lots of grown-up human beings

1002
00:43:37,490 --> 00:43:34,200
and a lot of them are in the experiencer

1003
00:43:40,309 --> 00:43:37,500
movement because it's it's a very

1004
00:43:43,010 --> 00:43:40,319
sophisticated movement an awful lot of

1005
00:43:44,690 --> 00:43:43,020
people in it know a good bit at this

1006
00:43:46,490 --> 00:43:44,700
point about what we're really here for

1007
00:43:50,750 --> 00:43:46,500
and what what is happening and they can

1008
00:43:53,390 --> 00:43:50,760
expect they can interact usefully and so

1009
00:43:55,370 --> 00:43:53,400
I I'm also very optimistic I think it's

1010
00:43:58,190 --> 00:43:55,380
working fine

1011
00:44:00,829 --> 00:43:58,200
okay that's good to hear

1012
00:44:02,390 --> 00:44:00,839
um here's a good uh I guess listener

1013
00:44:04,790 --> 00:44:02,400
question for you

1014
00:44:06,730 --> 00:44:04,800
um Kevin on Twitter asks in your book

1015
00:44:09,589 --> 00:44:06,740
communion you said that one of the ETS

1016
00:44:12,650 --> 00:44:09,599
tried to calm you down during an

1017
00:44:16,490 --> 00:44:12,660
abduction experience and that they said

1018
00:44:18,290 --> 00:44:16,500
it was uh it was with a Midwest accent I

1019
00:44:20,690 --> 00:44:18,300
found that interesting have you had any

1020
00:44:24,050 --> 00:44:20,700
other encounters where you detected an

1021
00:44:27,470 --> 00:44:24,060
accent from your abductors

1022
00:44:29,329 --> 00:44:27,480
um yeah well I haven't but Bruce Lee did

1023
00:44:32,690 --> 00:44:29,339
he said they had a distinct Jewish

1024
00:44:34,550 --> 00:44:32,700
accent as they walked out of the uh

1025
00:44:36,190 --> 00:44:34,560
bookstore behind him laughing and

1026
00:44:39,349 --> 00:44:36,200
talking about the book

1027
00:44:42,530 --> 00:44:39,359
I don't know what that was about

1028
00:44:47,870 --> 00:44:45,470
I didn't say

1029
00:44:50,809 --> 00:44:47,880
I don't think it was a Midwest I don't

1030
00:44:53,270 --> 00:44:50,819
think I said a Midwestern accent

1031
00:44:55,370 --> 00:44:53,280
when they tried to calm me down when I

1032
00:44:59,150 --> 00:44:55,380
in the first in the night in the

1033
00:45:01,550 --> 00:44:59,160
December 1985 abduction they turned on a

1034
00:45:04,730 --> 00:45:02,210
um

1035
00:45:06,710 --> 00:45:04,740
that kept saying what can we do to help

1036
00:45:09,349 --> 00:45:06,720
you stop screaming

1037
00:45:11,030 --> 00:45:09,359
and it was the wrong question

1038
00:45:14,030 --> 00:45:11,040
it should have been

1039
00:45:17,030 --> 00:45:14,040
something like we won't hurt you or what

1040
00:45:19,849 --> 00:45:17,040
can we do to

1041
00:45:21,109 --> 00:45:19,859
help you calm down

1042
00:45:23,750 --> 00:45:21,119
but

1043
00:45:25,609 --> 00:45:23,760
and it was a gentle sort of mechanical

1044
00:45:28,450 --> 00:45:25,619
female voice

1045
00:45:31,130 --> 00:45:28,460
but I don't recall I may it may have

1046
00:45:33,650 --> 00:45:31,140
when I was closer to the experience I

1047
00:45:37,190 --> 00:45:33,660
may have been aware of it having a

1048
00:45:41,030 --> 00:45:37,200
Midwestern accent but I don't right now

1049
00:45:43,910 --> 00:45:41,040
recall ever saying that specific phrase

1050
00:45:46,130 --> 00:45:43,920
okay gotcha thank you for clearing that

1051
00:45:48,470 --> 00:45:46,140
up uh a couple more listener questions

1052
00:45:53,030 --> 00:45:48,480
here Whitley if you don't mind of course

1053
00:45:56,270 --> 00:45:53,040
great thank you um let's see here uh

1054
00:45:58,550 --> 00:45:56,280
Todd on Instagram asks how did you

1055
00:46:00,950 --> 00:45:58,560
reconcile the trauma of your experience

1056
00:46:03,530 --> 00:46:00,960
to come to a place of understanding was

1057
00:46:05,030 --> 00:46:03,540
there ever forgiveness involved I know

1058
00:46:07,790 --> 00:46:05,040
there were some very disturbing

1059
00:46:10,970 --> 00:46:07,800
traumatic things that happened to you I

1060
00:46:13,490 --> 00:46:10,980
mean how did you find that closure or

1061
00:46:14,930 --> 00:46:13,500
that way have you ever forgiven the

1062
00:46:17,150 --> 00:46:14,940
visitors for what they've done to you

1063
00:46:20,390 --> 00:46:17,160
and the path they sent you on or have

1064
00:46:21,950 --> 00:46:20,400
you kind of come to terms with it I

1065
00:46:25,130 --> 00:46:21,960
never even

1066
00:46:27,950 --> 00:46:25,140
occurred to me the idea of forgiveness

1067
00:46:31,430 --> 00:46:27,960
I never felt a need

1068
00:46:33,349 --> 00:46:31,440
I in the sense that what I wanted to do

1069
00:46:36,170 --> 00:46:33,359
was to understand

1070
00:46:37,609 --> 00:46:36,180
what was happening to me and to make it

1071
00:46:42,650 --> 00:46:37,619
work for me

1072
00:46:46,809 --> 00:46:42,660
and so I'm very involved in that aspect

1073
00:46:49,010 --> 00:46:46,819
of it and not so involved in

1074
00:46:51,349 --> 00:46:49,020
personalities I don't even know if they

1075
00:46:53,290 --> 00:46:51,359
can understand forgiveness in the same

1076
00:46:56,150 --> 00:46:53,300
sense that we we do

1077
00:46:57,770 --> 00:46:56,160
or anything for that matter I don't I I

1078
00:46:59,990 --> 00:46:57,780
don't know how their brains work and

1079
00:47:01,849 --> 00:47:00,000
therefore cannot know how their minds

1080
00:47:03,069 --> 00:47:01,859
work

1081
00:47:04,790 --> 00:47:03,079
um

1082
00:47:08,569 --> 00:47:04,800
excuse me

1083
00:47:10,069 --> 00:47:08,579
acceptance yes I have accepted their

1084
00:47:12,770 --> 00:47:10,079
presence in my life

1085
00:47:16,250 --> 00:47:12,780
and I know that they are

1086
00:47:17,390 --> 00:47:16,260
difficult in many ways to be with very

1087
00:47:19,730 --> 00:47:17,400
difficult

1088
00:47:22,309 --> 00:47:19,740
and I also know

1089
00:47:24,890 --> 00:47:22,319
that from law and experience now

1090
00:47:26,950 --> 00:47:24,900
that they do have my and our best

1091
00:47:30,349 --> 00:47:26,960
interests at heart

1092
00:47:32,270 --> 00:47:30,359
on their terms and based on their

1093
00:47:35,150 --> 00:47:32,280
understanding of what life is and what

1094
00:47:41,569 --> 00:47:37,849
um I think they're somewhat predatory

1095
00:47:43,970 --> 00:47:41,579
and conceivably rather dangerous uh

1096
00:47:47,390 --> 00:47:43,980
especially uh

1097
00:47:49,849 --> 00:47:47,400
perhaps to souls that die without

1098
00:47:52,069 --> 00:47:49,859
with a lot of weight on them I think

1099
00:47:56,030 --> 00:47:52,079
they may be very predatory at that point

1100
00:47:57,530 --> 00:47:56,040
and may indeed be the reason we think in

1101
00:47:59,450 --> 00:47:57,540
terms of demons because that would be

1102
00:48:02,750 --> 00:47:59,460
what they looked like to a soul that

1103
00:48:05,569 --> 00:48:02,760
died that way but I saw Annie Ascend

1104
00:48:08,030 --> 00:48:05,579
after she died I saw it

1105
00:48:10,970 --> 00:48:08,040
and there's another way believe me a

1106
00:48:14,329 --> 00:48:10,980
good person and most people are good

1107
00:48:17,450 --> 00:48:14,339
it's not rare what's rare is the ones

1108
00:48:20,150 --> 00:48:17,460
that aren't that's very rare

1109
00:48:23,569 --> 00:48:20,160
we have to work hard to be evil on Earth

1110
00:48:25,670 --> 00:48:23,579
it's not easy because this is definitely

1111
00:48:28,370 --> 00:48:25,680
a school and there's plenty of latitude

1112
00:48:29,990 --> 00:48:28,380
you know you yeah you go through your

1113
00:48:33,349 --> 00:48:30,000
life and you do things that you later

1114
00:48:35,930 --> 00:48:33,359
regret and so forth but it does it does

1115
00:48:37,970 --> 00:48:35,940
not it lies very lightly on your soul

1116
00:48:41,750 --> 00:48:37,980
you have to really work at it you have

1117
00:48:43,670 --> 00:48:41,760
to be a Hitler or Nazi or some of these

1118
00:48:45,829 --> 00:48:43,680
people in the Russia you know apparently

1119
00:48:48,950 --> 00:48:45,839
you have to really work at it to be an

1120
00:48:50,210 --> 00:48:48,960
evil person to build weight into your

1121
00:48:52,010 --> 00:48:50,220
soul

1122
00:48:54,170 --> 00:48:52,020
and then you can't get rid of it very

1123
00:48:57,170 --> 00:48:54,180
easily either going to confession for

1124
00:48:58,390 --> 00:48:57,180
example is a joke it doesn't that's not

1125
00:49:01,490 --> 00:48:58,400
how it works

1126
00:49:02,990 --> 00:49:01,500
you can't kill somebody then go into a

1127
00:49:04,490 --> 00:49:03,000
priest and say bless me Father for I

1128
00:49:05,510 --> 00:49:04,500
have sinned I killed somebody and walk

1129
00:49:06,829 --> 00:49:05,520
out free

1130
00:49:10,010 --> 00:49:06,839
no

1131
00:49:10,849 --> 00:49:10,020
you belong to that person you killed

1132
00:49:13,430 --> 00:49:10,859
somebody

1133
00:49:17,089 --> 00:49:13,440
you are theirs

1134
00:49:21,849 --> 00:49:19,730
yeah interesting yeah I never thought of

1135
00:49:24,829 --> 00:49:21,859
it that way you're almost Tethered to

1136
00:49:28,069 --> 00:49:24,839
the soul now uh whether you like it or

1137
00:49:31,609 --> 00:49:28,079
not and huh you don't like it I wouldn't

1138
00:49:34,370 --> 00:49:31,619
think right exactly exactly

1139
00:49:35,050 --> 00:49:34,380
um last listener question for you lately

1140
00:49:38,089 --> 00:49:35,060
um

1141
00:49:41,510 --> 00:49:38,099
besides your own what other UFO or ET

1142
00:49:43,010 --> 00:49:41,520
cases most Intrigue you which which are

1143
00:49:45,290 --> 00:49:43,020
the ones that you uh put a lot of

1144
00:49:47,750 --> 00:49:45,300
credence into whether it's just a

1145
00:49:50,470 --> 00:49:47,760
sighting or a close encounter abduction

1146
00:49:53,930 --> 00:49:50,480
any others really stick out to you

1147
00:49:57,050 --> 00:49:53,940
one yeah there are lots I'm very very

1148
00:49:59,870 --> 00:49:57,060
involved in this uh I'm writing my new

1149
00:50:02,930 --> 00:49:59,880
book them is not about my experiences at

1150
00:50:03,890 --> 00:50:02,940
all it is in just one brief chapter at

1151
00:50:07,849 --> 00:50:03,900
the end

1152
00:50:10,270 --> 00:50:07,859
it's about cases that that came out of

1153
00:50:14,390 --> 00:50:10,280
the letters that Anne saved

1154
00:50:17,450 --> 00:50:14,400
and and deep analysis of those cases and

1155
00:50:19,970 --> 00:50:17,460
also deep analysis of where the military

1156
00:50:24,470 --> 00:50:19,980
is and what their experience has been

1157
00:50:26,150 --> 00:50:24,480
because it's it's an attempt to build a

1158
00:50:29,829 --> 00:50:26,160
picture

1159
00:50:36,530 --> 00:50:33,230
what they of how they relate the

1160
00:50:38,150 --> 00:50:36,540
visitors relate to us and therefore from

1161
00:50:40,250 --> 00:50:38,160
that

1162
00:50:42,770 --> 00:50:40,260
create some of a night kind of an idea

1163
00:50:46,010 --> 00:50:42,780
of what they want here want from us and

1164
00:50:48,530 --> 00:50:46,020
what they have to offer us

1165
00:50:49,849 --> 00:50:48,540
uh in other words to build contact to

1166
00:50:53,150 --> 00:50:49,859
another level

1167
00:50:55,549 --> 00:50:53,160
and of clarity

1168
00:50:57,910 --> 00:50:55,559
so

1169
00:51:03,650 --> 00:50:57,920
I

1170
00:51:06,049 --> 00:51:03,660
and

1171
00:51:07,250 --> 00:51:06,059
in the in in the book in the first part

1172
00:51:10,790 --> 00:51:07,260
of the book

1173
00:51:12,349 --> 00:51:10,800
and these are all truly a remarkable

1174
00:51:13,970 --> 00:51:12,359
experiences you know the abduction

1175
00:51:17,150 --> 00:51:13,980
experience

1176
00:51:19,849 --> 00:51:17,160
which is such a big media thing is

1177
00:51:20,829 --> 00:51:19,859
actually fairly rare they're much much

1178
00:51:22,970 --> 00:51:20,839
different

1179
00:51:24,470 --> 00:51:22,980
relationships not all of them Pleasant

1180
00:51:25,849 --> 00:51:24,480
and not certainly not all of them

1181
00:51:28,370 --> 00:51:25,859
unpleasant either most of them are

1182
00:51:30,410 --> 00:51:28,380
rather neutral they're the people trying

1183
00:51:32,690 --> 00:51:30,420
to understand what's going on when this

1184
00:51:36,710 --> 00:51:32,700
when these approaches occur

1185
00:51:39,470 --> 00:51:36,720
and uh they're very complex and very

1186
00:51:40,510 --> 00:51:39,480
different from what has been put out

1187
00:51:43,910 --> 00:51:40,520
there

1188
00:51:45,410 --> 00:51:43,920
uh so those are cases that I think are

1189
00:51:46,790 --> 00:51:45,420
important you know another case that's

1190
00:51:49,430 --> 00:51:46,800
sort of Lost

1191
00:51:52,069 --> 00:51:49,440
is the Karina Sables case as

1192
00:51:54,950 --> 00:51:52,079
s-a-e-b-e-l-s

1193
00:51:57,589 --> 00:51:54,960
uh she wrote a book I believe called uh

1194
00:51:59,870 --> 00:51:57,599
taken and

1195
00:52:02,510 --> 00:51:59,880
what happened this was in the early 90s

1196
00:52:05,990 --> 00:52:02,520
I mean the early 2000s

1197
00:52:09,109 --> 00:52:06,000
she and a friend suddenly had an urge to

1198
00:52:12,049 --> 00:52:09,119
go out into the to take a drive and to

1199
00:52:14,750 --> 00:52:12,059
go into this down this rather

1200
00:52:16,549 --> 00:52:14,760
Lonely Road and get out of the car and

1201
00:52:18,589 --> 00:52:16,559
to look at the stars

1202
00:52:21,170 --> 00:52:18,599
and when they did that they were

1203
00:52:23,750 --> 00:52:21,180
abducted and they were conscious of the

1204
00:52:25,130 --> 00:52:23,760
abduction being called to a place for

1205
00:52:27,410 --> 00:52:25,140
interaction with the visitors is

1206
00:52:28,430 --> 00:52:27,420
something that's not common but it does

1207
00:52:31,030 --> 00:52:28,440
happen

1208
00:52:34,190 --> 00:52:31,040
and they ended up with

1209
00:52:36,650 --> 00:52:34,200
significant medical issues that that had

1210
00:52:38,630 --> 00:52:36,660
to be treated by doctors so it's a

1211
00:52:40,250 --> 00:52:38,640
pretty strong case and Karina's book is

1212
00:52:43,190 --> 00:52:40,260
is pretty good

1213
00:52:46,010 --> 00:52:43,200
but the thing that makes it special is

1214
00:52:48,470 --> 00:52:46,020
that the UFO investigator Brian Fike at

1215
00:52:52,549 --> 00:52:48,480
the time is in British Columbia

1216
00:52:55,970 --> 00:52:52,559
was recording all kinds of sightings

1217
00:53:00,710 --> 00:52:55,980
that were uh

1218
00:53:03,829 --> 00:53:00,720
uh happening in the area of UFOs and in

1219
00:53:07,849 --> 00:53:03,839
fact the single best

1220
00:53:11,809 --> 00:53:07,859
piece of UFO footage in private hands

1221
00:53:14,690 --> 00:53:11,819
was recorded by someone there at that

1222
00:53:17,270 --> 00:53:14,700
time off of their back deck to me that's

1223
00:53:19,549 --> 00:53:17,280
an important case I have a copy of the

1224
00:53:22,730 --> 00:53:19,559
video Brian was kind enough to give me

1225
00:53:25,370 --> 00:53:22,740
give me it so I use it in my talks quite

1226
00:53:27,109 --> 00:53:25,380
often and it's important because there

1227
00:53:31,089 --> 00:53:27,119
isn't a single video that's ever been

1228
00:53:34,010 --> 00:53:31,099
released by the government that's better

1229
00:53:36,710 --> 00:53:34,020
good very good point yeah I know the

1230
00:53:38,510 --> 00:53:36,720
ones we have gotten are uh leave a

1231
00:53:40,190 --> 00:53:38,520
little too much to the imagination to be

1232
00:53:43,069 --> 00:53:40,200
completely honest well you know people

1233
00:53:46,190 --> 00:53:43,079
have to realize if it's blurred

1234
00:53:49,430 --> 00:53:46,200
a video now is blurred that's because

1235
00:53:51,589 --> 00:53:49,440
it's a CGI effect and it's easy to make

1236
00:53:54,049 --> 00:53:51,599
CGI if you blur it a little bit and then

1237
00:53:56,510 --> 00:53:54,059
you don't see all of the you can't you

1238
00:53:58,370 --> 00:53:56,520
can't identify because I mean my cell

1239
00:54:01,849 --> 00:53:58,380
phone doesn't take blurred videos does

1240
00:54:04,250 --> 00:54:01,859
yours no is the answer and that's you

1241
00:54:07,430 --> 00:54:04,260
know so you see these fake cell phone

1242
00:54:09,589 --> 00:54:07,440
videos of these blurred things and you

1243
00:54:12,410 --> 00:54:09,599
think you know on my website we have a

1244
00:54:15,109 --> 00:54:12,420
section called out there which we will

1245
00:54:17,809 --> 00:54:15,119
analyze videos and

1246
00:54:19,849 --> 00:54:17,819
we don't even touch the Blurred ones

1247
00:54:22,190 --> 00:54:19,859
because they're all fakes

1248
00:54:24,530 --> 00:54:22,200
but there are occasionally good videos

1249
00:54:28,010 --> 00:54:24,540
that are taken by normal people who

1250
00:54:29,990 --> 00:54:28,020
aren't trying to create click bait and

1251
00:54:32,150 --> 00:54:30,000
you know those are those are real

1252
00:54:36,109 --> 00:54:32,160
those are real and there are people

1253
00:54:38,770 --> 00:54:36,119
there's a uh John Martin in um

1254
00:54:41,990 --> 00:54:38,780
I believe he lives in Georgia and

1255
00:54:45,230 --> 00:54:42,000
Melinda Leslie it's in Sedona Melinda

1256
00:54:50,150 --> 00:54:45,240
takes people out to see UFOs every night

1257
00:54:52,790 --> 00:54:50,160
and they do they see UFOs uh uh John

1258
00:54:55,430 --> 00:54:52,800
Martin's got a YouTube channel where he

1259
00:54:56,510 --> 00:54:55,440
he uh uh

1260
00:54:58,670 --> 00:54:56,520
uh

1261
00:55:01,790 --> 00:54:58,680
puts up his videos he plays the

1262
00:55:03,770 --> 00:55:01,800
classical guitar and he says he talks oh

1263
00:55:05,930 --> 00:55:03,780
beautiful beautiful he's such a sweetest

1264
00:55:07,010 --> 00:55:05,940
guy in the world and he does this all

1265
00:55:11,089 --> 00:55:07,020
the time

1266
00:55:14,630 --> 00:55:11,099
and the often what he records are not

1267
00:55:17,750 --> 00:55:14,640
satellites they cannot be and

1268
00:55:19,430 --> 00:55:17,760
they're not planes so that leaves the

1269
00:55:21,410 --> 00:55:19,440
unknown

1270
00:55:22,910 --> 00:55:21,420
the visitors are here they're here in

1271
00:55:25,970 --> 00:55:22,920
large numbers

1272
00:55:26,750 --> 00:55:25,980
and the next step is to get closer to

1273
00:55:29,829 --> 00:55:26,760
them

1274
00:55:32,930 --> 00:55:29,839
so that we begin to be able to use the

1275
00:55:36,890 --> 00:55:32,940
tremendous store of knowledge that they

1276
00:55:39,290 --> 00:55:36,900
possess to help us get along and aim the

1277
00:55:42,950 --> 00:55:39,300
life of mankind a little bit more

1278
00:55:45,349 --> 00:55:42,960
clearly so that we do survive as a

1279
00:55:48,829 --> 00:55:45,359
physical species into the future because

1280
00:55:53,390 --> 00:55:48,839
this process of being physical and going

1281
00:55:56,089 --> 00:55:53,400
through physical life is very useful and

1282
00:55:58,609 --> 00:55:56,099
if we lose this on the earth we don't go

1283
00:56:00,349 --> 00:55:58,619
anywhere else our bodies these bodies

1284
00:56:04,250 --> 00:56:00,359
are part of this Earth

1285
00:56:08,089 --> 00:56:04,260
then we will realize too late that we

1286
00:56:10,010 --> 00:56:08,099
have lost The Treasure of treasures

1287
00:56:12,109 --> 00:56:10,020
we mustn't let that happen and they're

1288
00:56:14,510 --> 00:56:12,119
here to try to help us

1289
00:56:18,349 --> 00:56:14,520
not let that happen

1290
00:56:21,650 --> 00:56:18,359
they have uses for our souls to remember

1291
00:56:24,710 --> 00:56:21,660
yeah very good point very good point

1292
00:56:27,530 --> 00:56:24,720
well Whitley to close things out here

1293
00:56:29,630 --> 00:56:27,540
um you know you just came out with a new

1294
00:56:33,049 --> 00:56:29,640
release of communion with a new intro

1295
00:56:35,809 --> 00:56:33,059
and uh I highly suggest everyone check

1296
00:56:39,230 --> 00:56:35,819
it out uh the intro is very powerful uh

1297
00:56:42,170 --> 00:56:39,240
but on a separate note as a film buff

1298
00:56:44,390 --> 00:56:42,180
I'm curious uh we have the newly

1299
00:56:47,390 --> 00:56:44,400
released communion would you ever

1300
00:56:50,150 --> 00:56:47,400
consider like a reboot of the communion

1301
00:56:52,910 --> 00:56:50,160
film or a television series has that

1302
00:56:56,930 --> 00:56:52,920
ever been you know going around in your

1303
00:57:00,410 --> 00:56:56,940
brain we've worked on a TV series uh for

1304
00:57:02,329 --> 00:57:00,420
a while and it was all it was going

1305
00:57:06,170 --> 00:57:02,339
ahead but you know there are a lot of

1306
00:57:08,930 --> 00:57:06,180
people in the in this field in in on the

1307
00:57:11,690 --> 00:57:08,940
shadowy peripheries of it who don't want

1308
00:57:14,390 --> 00:57:11,700
communion to to succeed that's been true

1309
00:57:17,630 --> 00:57:14,400
from the beginning and the series was

1310
00:57:19,910 --> 00:57:17,640
suddenly mysteriously canceled I have a

1311
00:57:22,130 --> 00:57:19,920
feeling that somebody in an Executive

1312
00:57:23,450 --> 00:57:22,140
Suite got a whisper from some somewhere

1313
00:57:24,770 --> 00:57:23,460
saying you don't want to do this we

1314
00:57:27,890 --> 00:57:24,780
don't like this

1315
00:57:29,569 --> 00:57:27,900
and that's happens quite often uh I

1316
00:57:31,250 --> 00:57:29,579
would love to do it and I there are

1317
00:57:33,589 --> 00:57:31,260
people who try all the time to get

1318
00:57:35,990 --> 00:57:33,599
something up and it always fails but

1319
00:57:39,109 --> 00:57:36,000
maybe not forever maybe times will

1320
00:57:41,329 --> 00:57:39,119
change and maybe something will happen

1321
00:57:43,609 --> 00:57:41,339
okay I'm glad I'm glad I'm glad you're

1322
00:57:45,770 --> 00:57:43,619
optimistic about it I love love love

1323
00:57:47,569 --> 00:57:45,780
love too uh I'd love for your story to

1324
00:57:49,370 --> 00:57:47,579
be introduced to a new generation you

1325
00:57:51,710 --> 00:57:49,380
know yeah and I would love to see a

1326
00:57:53,690 --> 00:57:51,720
movie that was had a sufficient budget

1327
00:57:55,670 --> 00:57:53,700
it doesn't it wouldn't take much I mean

1328
00:57:56,990 --> 00:57:55,680
it wouldn't it would be a lower middle

1329
00:57:59,690 --> 00:57:57,000
budget movie

1330
00:58:03,130 --> 00:57:59,700
uh but it can't be made on a shoestring

1331
00:58:07,730 --> 00:58:03,140
not again exactly yeah I don't think any

1332
00:58:09,770 --> 00:58:07,740
budget really uh can really give you

1333
00:58:11,270 --> 00:58:09,780
what you need of these experiences you

1334
00:58:13,849 --> 00:58:11,280
look at something like Fire in the Sky

1335
00:58:16,309 --> 00:58:13,859
as well who I know your your colleagues

1336
00:58:18,170 --> 00:58:16,319
and friends with Travis Walton and he's

1337
00:58:21,170 --> 00:58:18,180
gone on the record and said yeah movie

1338
00:58:22,910 --> 00:58:21,180
just could not couldn't get to the level

1339
00:58:25,490 --> 00:58:22,920
of what I actually experienced the

1340
00:58:28,670 --> 00:58:25,500
emotion was there which is very similar

1341
00:58:31,609 --> 00:58:28,680
to your own Travis is a great guy he's a

1342
00:58:35,510 --> 00:58:31,619
classic example of the real deal

1343
00:58:38,630 --> 00:58:35,520
type of contactee out there

1344
00:58:41,089 --> 00:58:38,640
telling the same story again and again

1345
00:58:42,730 --> 00:58:41,099
for years and years

1346
00:58:45,470 --> 00:58:42,740
being

1347
00:58:47,210 --> 00:58:45,480
trashed and still going out there and

1348
00:58:49,390 --> 00:58:47,220
doing it anyway

1349
00:58:52,430 --> 00:58:49,400
that's that's that's

1350
00:58:55,849 --> 00:58:52,440
the job and I think all of us who are

1351
00:58:59,030 --> 00:58:55,859
out in public have one personality trade

1352
00:59:01,250 --> 00:58:59,040
in common we're stubborn as hell if

1353
00:59:05,210 --> 00:59:01,260
you're a single one of us

1354
00:59:07,549 --> 00:59:05,220
so yeah yeah well I'm glad you are I'm

1355
00:59:09,710 --> 00:59:07,559
glad you are because the the story lives

1356
00:59:11,030 --> 00:59:09,720
on and I hope we get those answers I

1357
00:59:13,630 --> 00:59:11,040
truly truly

1358
00:59:20,109 --> 00:59:17,809
it's getting into useful contact then

1359
00:59:22,430 --> 00:59:20,119
the answers will come right out of us

1360
00:59:23,990 --> 00:59:22,440
the government can't answer these

1361
00:59:26,930 --> 00:59:24,000
questions because it doesn't know the

1362
00:59:29,329 --> 00:59:26,940
answers not the real answers

1363
00:59:31,150 --> 00:59:29,339
I love that I love that each individual

1364
00:59:33,890 --> 00:59:31,160
I think is going to experience their own

1365
00:59:36,289 --> 00:59:33,900
disclosure uh you know that would be

1366
00:59:38,089 --> 00:59:36,299
like to stay away from but yeah yeah I

1367
00:59:39,770 --> 00:59:38,099
think it is a very personal thing so no

1368
00:59:42,049 --> 00:59:39,780
I'm glad very personal I'm glad you

1369
00:59:44,510 --> 00:59:42,059
brought that up yeah yeah well Whitley

1370
00:59:47,390 --> 00:59:44,520
thank you thank you for your time you've

1371
00:59:49,430 --> 00:59:47,400
been so gracious uh before we go uh

1372
00:59:51,589 --> 00:59:49,440
obviously let us know where we can find

1373
00:59:53,049 --> 00:59:51,599
your work and and everything yeah if

1374
00:59:56,630 --> 00:59:53,059
you'll give that to us yeah well

1375
00:59:59,569 --> 00:59:56,640
unknowncountry.com is my home my website

1376
01:00:01,910 --> 00:59:59,579
I'm very personally involved in it

1377
01:00:03,770 --> 01:00:01,920
uh if you want to you can subscribe to

1378
01:00:05,809 --> 01:00:03,780
it for five dollars a month and then you

1379
01:00:07,789 --> 01:00:05,819
get a whole wealth of additional

1380
01:00:09,650 --> 01:00:07,799
material but if you don't want to

1381
01:00:11,270 --> 01:00:09,660
subscribe there's still plenty on the

1382
01:00:14,089 --> 01:00:11,280
outside

1383
01:00:17,990 --> 01:00:14,099
um the visitors are not interested in

1384
01:00:19,069 --> 01:00:18,000
riches and wealth so I had when I built

1385
01:00:21,289 --> 01:00:19,079
the website

1386
01:00:23,630 --> 01:00:21,299
it was very clear that we needed to make

1387
01:00:26,089 --> 01:00:23,640
it plenty of it free

1388
01:00:28,069 --> 01:00:26,099
and and the subscription is basically

1389
01:00:30,530 --> 01:00:28,079
just barely support it and don't

1390
01:00:36,789 --> 01:00:30,540
sometimes so if you do want to subscribe

1391
01:00:41,270 --> 01:00:39,049
of course

1392
01:00:43,430 --> 01:00:41,280
okay perfect and I look forward to the

1393
01:00:45,170 --> 01:00:43,440
new book hopefully hopefully we'll get

1394
01:00:47,410 --> 01:00:45,180
to see that sooner than later but

1395
01:00:49,730 --> 01:00:47,420
Whitley thank you thank you for sharing

1396
01:00:52,010 --> 01:00:49,740
all of your insights and thank you for

1397
01:01:00,060 --> 01:00:52,020
joining me on somewhere in the skies

1398
01:01:34,790 --> 01:01:09,410
[Music]